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26 November 2013 @ 06:54 pm
Something has been bothering me  

I've been thinking about this ever since Night of the Doctor proved me right that John Hurt's Doctor was the one that fought in the Time War - a new regeneration between 8 & 9 as we regard them.

I totally agree that there is no need to re-number them all as he doesn't think of that regeneration as being the Doctor BUT there is one thing that has not been resolved:

1. William Hartnell becomes
2. Patrick Troughton becomes
3. Jon Pertwee becomes
4. Tom Baker (stick with me, I'm not just randomly naming them!) becomes
5. Peter Davison becomes
6. Colin Baker becomes
7. Sylvester McCoy regenerates into
8. Paul McGann regenerates into
9. John Hurt regenerates into
10. Christopher Ecclestone regenerates into
11. David Tennant regenerates into
12. His own hand/David Tennant (see where I'm going?)
13. Matt Smith will regenerate into

Peter Capaldi, who will technically be the fourteenth regeneration!!!

Now, I'm not suggesting that thirteen is set in stone, after all the Master broke it, and maybe the limit was arbitrarily applied by the Time Lord Council - but nobody has mentioned it. Maybe it will be addressed at Christmas- I sincerely hope so because to me it's a gaping hole that Moffat would normally address and I will be disappointed if he ignores it completely.

Any thoughts?
I will call her George: Dr Who - Elevenstrangevisitor7 on November 27th, 2013 12:45 am (UTC)
I was under the impression that the master stole additional regenerations. Plus my impression from the webisode "Night of the Doctor" is that John Hurt is a war doctor and a version of 8. so it doesn't really count as a full regeneration. Which is kind of how I see the whole hand situation with David Tennent - it's part of the same regeneration.

I figure the number of regenerations will be addressed in the Christmas special. As you point out Moffat isn't one to let that question hang out there
But, I don't want to be a pie,: withnail whoidontlikegravy on November 27th, 2013 01:03 am (UTC)
A version of 8.... Yeah, I like that idea.

It was down to the sisters of Karn(?is that how to spell it?) and their meddling, and his subsequent regeneration into Nine was kind of timey wimey because of all that happened so yeah, maybe the War Doctor regeneration is like a bubble universe - kind of separate from, but attached to, the main regenerations.

At the end of the day, the BBC will be idiots to let go of the cash cow so I'm sure they will find a way to increase the number of regenerations so it can continue beyond Capaldi.

I also thought that perhaps when River used her regenerations to heal Eleven she maybe accidentally gave him extra ones?
Ithithildyn on November 27th, 2013 01:55 am (UTC)
I also thought that perhaps when River used her regenerations to heal Eleven she maybe accidentally gave him extra ones?

That's what we were thinking.

I don't count the hand thingie. That being said, there will be 50 Doctors as long as they can milk Doctor Who :D But yes, I do hope they address it all at some point.
I will call her George: Dr Who - Happy Fourstrangevisitor7 on November 27th, 2013 02:59 am (UTC)
I always use subtitles and in the subtitles they always called him the War Doctor while 10 and 11 wear referred to by number. So that's what makes me think he's an off shoot of 8 - created by the sisters for one purpose and when that purpose was complete he became 9. Too bad they couldn't have gotten Chris to shoot one scene for the regenerations

I figure that after the doctor saves Gallefry from it's parallel time bubble, they will reward him with extra lives.

The River thing makes sense since lives can obviously be given and taken from one Time Lord to another. So I like the idea that he got a couple from her. I would accept this reasoning.

Have you watched the short with 5, 6 & 7. Loved them running around trying to get in the anniversary special. It is too bad they couldn't figure out how to have them all participate like Tom Baker did.
Feonixriftfeonixrift on November 27th, 2013 11:50 pm (UTC)
Oh yeah! I'd forgotten about River. That's a feasible out.
stacenz on November 27th, 2013 08:52 am (UTC)
There's one thing that kind of jumped out at me when I saw the episode... you know how at the end Tom Baker was there and there was that whole thing about being The Curator... maybe a way to continue show?? Although, not sure if they'd have to rename it Curator Who and that just wouldn't be right :D

But I kind of figured that River gave all her remaining regenerations to Eleven so that'll be why they will be able to continue after Capaldi leaves.
But, I don't want to be a pie,: 1011idontlikegravy on November 28th, 2013 12:24 am (UTC)
I get what you mean and that could be a direction for the show, but naming him the Curator wouldn't explain how he can have more than thirteen regenerations - just as saying John Hurt isn't the Doctor means he doesn't count somehow.

I did just read an interview with Moffat where he said he hopes to answer many questions to wrap up eleven's plotline so I guess we'll see in a few weeks.
Feonixriftfeonixrift on November 27th, 2013 11:45 pm (UTC)
(Please pardon the return to familiar numbering; I'd confuse myself utterly otherwise.)

I'm going with 8b is a version of 8, since that group's power despite being 'the same' as regeneration is .. subtly different. Also with the hand not counting, because that was explained as excess energy from 9->10, which makes sense due to the whole Bad Wolf thing where it wouldn't otherwise.

But what sticks in my craw... is that everyone seems to be forgetting the Valyard. He's already happened, so he has to happen, but how?
But, I don't want to be a pie,: cricketidontlikegravy on November 28th, 2013 12:18 am (UTC)
I'm not forgetting the Valeyard, but we only have the Master's and the Great Intelligence's word that the Valeyard is the Doctor (as far as I know at any rate) and perhaps the Great Intelligence learned of him from the Master or rumours started by the Master so it's possible that he isn't the Doctor or perhaps he isn't a regeneration at all but some sort of manifestation of his psyche? (I'm waffling now, I admit, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say)
(Anonymous) on November 30th, 2013 02:01 am (UTC)
I always thought that it was the act of regenerating that was counted not the bodies used. That Time Lords have 13 regenerations with the Valliard as his last. I don't think it ws stated that he was 13, just the last regen.
So counting the regens... the first body don't count as he hasn't regenerated yet. But that does mean that there are no more left... if you count the hand. I thought that he just "pumped" the energy into the hand/container and didin't regenerate himself so it didn't count (in tv terms). So that could give them one more.

It will be interesting to see what they/BBC Wales does.
But, I don't want to be a pie,: 1011idontlikegravy on November 30th, 2013 02:26 am (UTC)
I am counting the act of Regeneration, which is what bothers me about the hand - even if his body didn't regenerate because he poured it into the hand, he still used up that Regeneration. And if we say Capaldi becomes the Valeyard that would be the fourteenth Regeneration - clearly one more than he should have (but as said above, this could be attributed to River)